VOID ON WARRANTY!!!! why? You modified it...

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#1

It's a bit of a rant, I guess....

But I think it's about time, ALL electronic manufacturers from Sony and Samsung and Apple to Intel, Logitech, basically all of them should have new Guidelines on what really voids "WARRANTY"

For example, Several months back I flashed my firmware, the device worked better and faster than it ever did before! But sadly, yesterday for no reason at all the screen stopped working, the device worked fine, plug it into a TV and it worked, so obviously it was purely a hardware fault.

Why should a person have to suffer for something completely out of their control?... all because they modified their device be a phone, tablet or TV.....

So unless you "bricked" the device or opened it up or psychically modified it.... any naturally occurring problems due to bad batches should be covered by the warranty, and it is, providing you've not flashed it's firmware in which case tough look.

In which case, someone with an evil mind could one day work out and find some kind of new exploit and have this trojan/virus spread just laying wait for a certain day and kaboom, using some kind of root exploit, then modifiy it's own firmware by copying the contents and or rebooting or with elevated privileges....

Could void million's of devices in a single day....

So Anyway, Warranty rules need to be changed to something along the lines of "would it have broken anyway eg faulty batch of LCD screens" or did you cause it because you don't know what you're doing?... then you pay the price, if it's the manufacturers fault then it should be covered regardless... if the engineers have to "unbrick it" or have to do anything to correct the end users problem other than the faulty hardware....

Warranty should cover it!

We recalled all the cars between 2012 April and 2013 Jan it turns out the brakes are potentially life threatening and should be serviced and replaced asap.

  • Oh... ok,

Sir... yes?.... Is this your MP3/Mp4 video player and not the one that came as standard?...

Why yes...

Oh, did i say free?... that will be $3,000 for voiding the warranty.

Is that how it works? I'll have to check now....

#2

If you can prove a way to psychically modify hardware then James Randi will award you $1,000,000.

I really doubt that Toyota would refuse mandated brake work over a changed music system.

Question is, did that firmware update come with a warranty-voiding agreement that you might have clicked your way right through?

#3

GoForSmoke:
If you can prove a way to psychically modify hardware then James Randi will award you $1,000,000.

I really doubt that Toyota would refuse mandated brake work over a changed music system.

Question is, did that firmware update come with a warranty-voiding agreement that you might have clicked your way right through?

Did you read anything except the last few sentences?

#4

cjdelphi:
For example, Several months back I flashed my firmware, the device worked better and faster than it ever did before!

Did it overclock the device? Overdrive a component?

Some hardware relies on the software limiting itself to a certain range of parameters.

#5

cjdelphi:

GoForSmoke:
If you can prove a way to psychically modify hardware then James Randi will award you $1,000,000.

I really doubt that Toyota would refuse mandated brake work over a changed music system.

Question is, did that firmware update come with a warranty-voiding agreement that you might have clicked your way right through?

Did you read anything except the last few sentences?

I read the whole thing. MY last sentence should tell you that. Did you read it?

#6

Well, BIOS flashes - from the company - do not or should not void any warranties.

My criterion for flash upgrades is: will I have a copy of the original firmware to flash back - making it indistinguishable from the new/ original item - if there is a problem?

Have a couple of Nanos here which I have not started using yet - simply because I wish to backload the sketch with which they come before I do so - just so I can examine it later.

#7

You of course could flash a rom to a mobile device and then overclock it, you could also do the same thing via a BIOS on a computer, does that void your warranty?

So why would flashing an Iphone or Galaxy cause a Void on Warranty?

#8

cjdelphi:
So why would flashing an Iphone or Galaxy cause a Void on Warranty?

There's lots of unknown factors that the people putting together the firmwares might not know about.

eg. Use wrong charging parameters for your battery ... or overdrive the transmitter circuit.

#9

cjdelphi:
You of course could flash a rom to a mobile device and then overclock it, you could also do the same thing via a BIOS on a computer, does that void your warranty?

So why would flashing an Iphone or Galaxy cause a Void on Warranty?

Devices like that are a closed system. It is certainly in the realm of possibility that you can do damage by changing the software. For that matter, if you flashed a PC motherboard with a random third-party firmware, problems with that board are unlikely to be covered by the manufacturer either.)

More importantly, it's not worth an engineer's time to analyze a device that has been modified in any way to determine what you may have done that is outside the realm of reasonable use. There's a contract between you and the manufacturer. Stay out of this area, and anything that goes wrong is considered a warrantee-able failure. Trespass, and you're on your own.

#10

"Some random firmware"

!

No... eg, flashing an official samsung stock rom, will void it!

#11

Oh stop blubbing. It's a basic precept amongst hackers that you don't really and truly own a device until the warranty is well and truly voided.

If I see a "warranty void if removed" sticker on a device, I'll remove it just on principle. I even sometimes do this when at someone else's house. Although sometimes I don't get invited back to those places.

#12

Did you read anything except the last few sentences?

GoForSmoke:
Question is, did that firmware update come with a warranty-voiding agreement that you might have clicked your way right through?

Or are you only interested in presenting a limited set of 'facts'?

#13

pico, i agree with you completely on the warranty...

I just don't find it fair that if the touchscreen malfunctions (which has nothing to do with ANYTHING even if i bricked it!) I should charged to have the screen replaced! if you don't agree with me on that who's side are you on? the corporate side?

Point is, if my screen dies, i'll be out of pocket for an issue that has 100% nothing to do with me, it's a well known issue, but those who have not flashed their phones or jail break or unrooted it, are not entitled to that free replacement..

I think it's totally unjustified and unfair!

If you take the label off, you "psychically" modify it.

If i flash the kernel to allow root privileges and then for some reason the button at the bottom of the screen stops working, I can't get it covered under warranty because "i modified it"... well if i modified a ford and put in a video player, would they reject me as well!

Are you failing to see what i'm trying to say?

#14

cjdelphi:
pico, i agree with you completely on the warranty...

No, I don't think you do.

cjdelphi:
I just don't find it fair that if the touchscreen malfunctions (which has nothing to do with ANYTHING even if i bricked it!) I should charged to have the screen replaced! if you don't agree with me on that who's side are you on? the corporate side?

That's called not having a warranty. Once you are out of warranty, the corporation has no more responsibility to fix your device than I do, or any other third party.

cjdelphi:
Point is, if my screen dies, i'll be out of pocket for an issue that has 100% nothing to do with me, it's a well known issue, but those who have not flashed their phones or jail break or unrooted it, are not entitled to that free replacement..

I think it's totally unjustified and unfair!

Yes, I think we got that. Your thing broke. That sucks. But if it hasn't got anything to do with you, it hasn't got anything to do with anyone. Because the concept here is that it is now your device. Not anyone else's.

cjdelphi:
If you take the label off, you "psychically" modify it.

Do you think?

cjdelphi:
If i flash the kernel to allow root privileges and then for some reason the button at the bottom of the screen stops working, I can't get it covered under warranty because "i modified it"... well if i modified a ford and put in a video player, would they reject me as well!

It's economics, pure and simple. When a product is released, there is a notional rate of returns for warranty repair. That's a bottom-line expense. The more lenient they are with the warranty T&C, the more they have to include that in the purchase price.

So they draw a line. Here are the T&C for accepting warranty repairs. If we haven't screwed up and produced a lemon, we will make money on the product. If we have significantly higher rates of return under warranty than projected, then we lose money.

So they draw the line. They are (for obvious reasons) loathe to make exceptions.

And you stepped over the line. So what do you really expect?

cjdelphi:
Are you failing to see what i'm trying to say?

No, I see exactly what you are trying to say. You want to have it both ways.

And I just don't agree with you. So stop crying about it! Wear it as a badge of honour. Or just pay to get the thing (your thing) repaired.

#15

I built an amp for a pair of bookshelf speakers a year ago. I got careless, and instead of using my throwaway Discman as a source, I plugged my iPhone in. Of course, I had done something dumb with the transformer center tap and now my phone's headphone jack doesn't work anymore.

Half a year later, we're at an Apple Store in Grand Central Station killing time waiting for a train. I ask the guy there to check on my contract status because I blew up the headphone jack. He checks, I still have a couple months before I can upgrade the phone. OK, thought so... BUT, he says, let me see if I can get it working. So I hand him my phone knowing there's nothing he has in his bag of tricks to repair a blown up output stage, but hey, whatever. No dice, of course, so he offers to check if I'm still within the warranty period. What? This isn't a warranty claim, I plugged it into a home-made device that wasn't wired correctly. Still, he checks. No, it's out of warranty... which is OK by me, because I'm not sure I could've gone through with that exchange knowing it's 100% my fault. I'm just glad the thing was protected well enough that it otherwise still works and I didn't set the LiPo battery on fire.

The moral of this lesson? Don't buy a Galaxy! :wink: Nah, it's that you should make sure to double check your grounds.

#16

SirNickity:
iPhone

I knew a guy who bought a new BMW that blew a transmission about a month outside the warranty.

BMW elected to replace it under warranty anyway.

The moral of this story? Apple is in some ways like BMW, perhaps.

On most items, if I can choose to pay less and forgo the warranty, I will. There are a few exceptions, though.

One reason is that occasionally I've actually had to go through the tedious process of a warranty claim. Now that's a hidden cost you don't appreciate until you've endured it. It's at about the stage where you wish the damn thing had failed outside the warranty period, just so you didn't have to jump through all the hoops and put up with all the inconvenience, that the light bulb comes on.

#17

Psychically, physically... what's the difference?

Ask Uri Geller. He says you just have to want the spoon to bend and it does so maybe you just don't want enough for the warranty to bend.

3rd time: did the firmware come with a warranty voided clause? Or was it 3rd party as now seems to be the case?

I refuse to buy anything Seagate over their idea of warranty and refusal to have a drive reformatted. I have a whole trail of people who won't buy their junk including 1 or 2 who did and got burned. I doubt that Seagate notices but that's tough as two of those people are hardware decision making executives. :smiley: F Seagate!

#18

In Australia you have certain statutory rights, regardless of what the vendor says, or what "agreements" you might happen to "agree" to in opening the package. As in: "by opening this box you agree to give us your first-born for slavery for the rest of his/her life".

Having said that, I found recently that in practice attempting to return faulty goods is met with a stone-walling "You can only return faulty goods on the day they are purchased". While this is of course not true, fighting them over a few dollars simply isn't worth it.

You can choose not go back to that particular vendor, as I have vowed to do. And in the process found that I can get the same things, cheaper and delivered promptly, from eBay.

eBay has a smart business model, of posting reputation. And I've found that vendors are keen to get a good rating from you, even to the extent of writing follow-up emails asking if you are happy with their goods. Now I have never had a big department store ring me to ask if I was happy with what they sold me.

I have a message for retailers in Australia. If you think it is smart to stiff your customers, think again. There is always eBay, and other online sites where you can buy a wide range of goods, cheaply, with fast delivery, and good customer support.

#19

SirNickity:
I built an amp for a pair of bookshelf speakers a year ago. I got careless, and instead of using my throwaway Discman as a source, I plugged my iPhone in. Of course, I had done something dumb with the transformer center tap and now my phone's headphone jack doesn't work anymore.

Half a year later, we're at an Apple Store in Grand Central Station killing time waiting for a train. I ask the guy there to check on my contract status because I blew up the headphone jack. He checks, I still have a couple months before I can upgrade the phone. OK, thought so... BUT, he says, let me see if I can get it working. So I hand him my phone knowing there's nothing he has in his bag of tricks to repair a blown up output stage, but hey, whatever. No dice, of course, so he offers to check if I'm still within the warranty period. What? This isn't a warranty claim, I plugged it into a home-made device that wasn't wired correctly. Still, he checks. No, it's out of warranty... which is OK by me, because I'm not sure I could've gone through with that exchange knowing it's 100% my fault. I'm just glad the thing was protected well enough that it otherwise still works and I didn't set the LiPo battery on fire.

The moral of this lesson? Don't buy a Galaxy! :wink: Nah, it's that you should make sure to double check your grounds.

I've owned 2 SG's (S1 + S3) and my wife (S2)

All of them have been flawless, working perfectly fine, but if i drop it or damage it then yeah i'm to blame but if my button was to stop working tomorrow it'd be rejected if they checked the binary counter (even after restoring stock rom making the person at the shop none the wiser)

#20

Actually, regardless of consumer protection legislation, a clause like that wouldn't be enforcable, because slavery is illegal (at least I'm pretty sure), and a contract that contracts for illegal conduct is automatically non-binding. Otherwise you'd have the (legally) absurd situation where a law court would effectively be enforcing an illegal act by validating the contract.

That means the judge could potentially throw out the entire contract as invalid, unless there is a severabilty clause. The severability clause is the one that says if any clause is found to be unenforcable for whatever reason, the rest of the contract stands -- that clause is "severable".

Just thought you might like to know how to draft the EULA for Gammon Software Enterprises in case you do want to include a First-born Slavery Clause. And of course, at this time of year, Sanity Clauses are popular. (Boom boom. Cheers to Groucho and Chico :grin:)