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521

Another mix I have yet to try is glass strands in concrete.

I did this a couple of months ago. A contractor I had working on my house years back didn't put enough foundation under one part and the room started to drop. I had a crew (shovel...that much...not me) dig it out under the existing foundation and then out three feet to form a walkway. I filled it with fiberglass reinforced 3000 lb concrete and rebar. Really can't speak to the survivability, but the stuff has totally stopped movement on that part of the house.

But I have got to experiment with that building idea. I'll start small, maybe a flower pot, planter, dog house, something on that scale. It's just too cool

522

focalist:
The ribbing where the fabric is stitched forms the load bearing members of the structure.

When it is done, the shell is the load bearing part.
And wow, call it a 'bomb' shelter. But it's not proper evil genius without an underground complex.

Concrete has enormous compressive strength, good but not great shear strength and very weak tensile strength. Add wire or glass fiber and suddenly you have super-crete.

I learned wire and concrete in design school. Less than 3/8" thick welding rod, stainless steel screen and concrete easily deflected a 2 1/2 lb sledge on a 2 ft wide model. Tubing, chicken wire and concrete has been used to make ocean-going 40+ ft boats with 3/4" thick hulls (except where the 2 1/2" tubing was). The stuff just gives and flexes back. If you break it, you push the loose stuff out and patch it with concrete, which is kind of like what you do with a fiberglass canoe that's been slammed into a rock.

I have to wonder how thin the glass cuttings and concrete can go. It might work for enclosures and it might not.

Oh yeah, use driveway sealer when you're done. Concrete needs some water (the term I was given is water of hydration) to maintain bonds. If it dries out, it loses strength.

523

one of the best ways to waterproof concrete is PVA, water it down about 4 or 5 to 1, let it churn in the mixer for a while.
This is a great way to waterproof ponds.

Another strengthening idea the Australian Defense Force found is wood wool, sawdust isn't good enough, you need "curly" bits.
Give them a soak in a PVA/water wash, then apply them to your first layer of concrete on a "chicken wire" base, then trowel another layer of concrete over.

Other methods are polypropylene or glass fibres mixed in.

Glass reenforced concrete is really strong, they use it here on our street racing circuit curbings.

524

I've wondered about wood splinters as a cheap alternative to glass or wire. Shavings? Sounds good. I only use sawdust with glue to make putty, not crete.

The way I was first taught is a frame with layers of chicken wire loosely tied and the concrete pressed in taking care there's no air bubbles. It can get very thin and take high loads. That was 1974-75.

I see the use of 2 to 3 inch wire or glass fiber strands touted since. It can be poured, molded, and now erected dry and hosed down. The amount of handwork has gone way down.

Also at home supply stores, check out Hardie Board and Hardie flooring, especially the flooring.

525

focalist:
I've recently been intrigued by the invention of Concrete Cloth.

Hmm. It's not such a new idea anymore. First shows up on the Internet in 2005, having won a prize in a 2004 design contest: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,66872,00.html

And most recently (8 years later) looking about the same:

So why isn't this showing up all over? (perhaps I expect change to be too rapid, being in high-tech and all.) A bit of searching, and it sort-of looks like the "inflatable building" isn't quite the killer app that it looks like in the demo. Perhaps if you can deliver and position 500+lbs of concrete, provide running water for hydration and electricity for inflation, the other theoretical advantages of the scheme aren't so compelling anymore :frowning: It looks like they and other licensees are doing other neat stuff, though. http://www.concretecanvas.co.uk/Images/ccgengallery/index.html

526

The advantages of strength and wear are not just theory. That cloth is just a way to go about it.

527

focalist:
I will give a report on the (reference to counterfeit product removed by moderator) "uino" when it arrives- but I see no reason for it to be anything other than a good ole basic Uno..

EDIT: Just noticed the reference to it being counterfeit! If I might ask (going to go and read the permissible use of the design page) what specifically about their clones isn't allowed? Last thing I want is to help a counterfeiter.. isn't there licensed clone uinos? I assumed.... Don't SparkFun and LadyAda among others make licensed clones? And, if this is a "problematic" clone brand while others are licensed, is there a list of vendors that HAVE licensed the design properly? I'd of course avoid using or praising a vendor that is cheating the system. As an end user on a shoestring, I often go for the cheapest, but it's not worth hurting the Arduino project for! If there's an "offender's list" or a "certified list", I've not ever seen it, other than the references to SparkFun and a couple others.

LCD/Keypad Shield: Their example code leaves a little to be desired, the lib works well but wasn't documented out for use (on the Keypad/LCD shield). They use the design where the five buttons return a different value on A0, and the lcd is wired to pins D4-D9 for use in 4-bit mode with the standard libs. Cute, solid implementation. It's mass produced cheap stuff of course, but it seems at least WELL mass produced. They provide no docs on the device, their website link could really use to be better documented.. but for the price- awesome. Because there is the doc problems, I'd not recommend it for a total novice.

Uno: Solid clone. Very clearly their logo screened on back, reference to www.arduino.cc, came with what looks to be about a half meter shielded cable. Started "blink" from original plugin, driver wasn't a problem, no problems uploading and using a couple of basic sketches, then popped on the LCD shield and loaded up their demo sketch, worked with no problems. Again, no documents whatsoever, but since it is a clone, Arduino site is plenty. Not much to say really, it's an Uno by all measures.

ProtoShield: First off I will say that I preferred the protoshield kit from SeeedStudio that I actually purchased at a Radio Shack for $9.99. I prefer to solder on the headers that I want to use, while this is more like the genuine, with the top and bottom headers already attached and two LED's, a RESET passthrough button, and a spare button. It also came with one of the little breadboards that fit between the headers and a mittfull (supposed to be sixty five of them, not going to bother to count) of male-to-male standard jumpers. Again, it's a solid clone of the "real thing", no logos on it at all.

Got the three of them for $39 shipped, I have to say, other than feeling a small twinge of guilt at not having bought "the real thing" this time around- not bad at all, and between the three look like they would make a solid foundation for a project. Most of the time these days I just use raw chips and USBASP, but I have a couple of shield-based things and wanted to see how one of the clones measures up to the real thing...

EDIT: Interested into seeing what's up with the clone permissibility and all that. Had wondered about it, as there are quite a few out there in terms of makers. Having just read the FAQ, I'm really curious as to what they've done - the whole clone thing never made sense to me, in that clones are sure to be cheaper than the original, thereby undercutting your own sales. Philosphical I figured it must be. The only thing that looks like it COULD be a violation of a copyright (to my eye, anyway) might be that the infinity "big" logo that gets cut off by the edge of the board. What's the scoop?

528

Another reason I like my Teensy 2.0's, they do pay towards the project and cost less even w/pins.

But mostly it's about AVR w/USB including a Mega2560-class version.
I don't even try to solder pins to those after I &%@$-ed up one of their micro-SD adapters.

529

EDIT: Just noticed the reference to it being counterfeit! If I might ask (going to go and read the permissible use of the design page) what specifically about their clones isn't allowed? Last thing I want is to help a counterfeiter.. isn't there licensed clone uinos? I assumed.... Don't SparkFun and LadyAda among others make licensed clones? And, if this is a "problematic" clone brand while others are licensed, is there a list of vendors that HAVE licensed the design properly? I'd of course avoid using or praising a vendor that is cheating the system. As an end user on a shoestring, I often go for the cheapest, but it's not worth hurting the Arduino project for!

As both the hardware and software files for most all the arduino products are open sourced, anyone is free to build and even sell 'clones', no license or permission required. What is 'protected' is the Arduino name as a trademark and that is where most of the Asian clones cross the legal line making no attempt to change the branding stuff on the board and describing their boards as Arduino boards. A few to play by the rules and change the name and silk printed trademark stuff and describing them as compatible to arduino.

Lefty

530

focalist:
EDIT: Just noticed the reference to it being counterfeit! If I might ask (going to go and read the permissible use of the design page) what specifically about their clones isn't allowed?

The specific products you referenced may or may not be a problem. The company in question is selling a product that clearly violates the Arduino trademark. In other words, they claim one of their products is an authenticate Arduino and it is not.

Sidebar: Lying about the country of origin violates U.S. law (claiming the board is "Made in Italy" when it is not) and, in my opinion, is despicable.

As an end user on a shoestring, I often go for the cheapest, but it's not worth hurting the Arduino project for! If there's an "offender's list" or a "certified list", I've not ever seen it, other than the references to SparkFun and a couple others.

Which is, of course, not a problem. The Arduino folks have made it quite clear that they expect less expensive compatible boards to be produced and have even provided details on how to make such boards.

If there's an "offender's list" or a "certified list", I've not ever seen it, other than the references to SparkFun and a couple others.

No offenders list. This is the official distributors list... Distributors — Arduino Official Store When in doubt you can always ask... http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ContactUs

531

Good to know. I do have to say that in this case, it's clearly marked as their own product, marked made in china, and denotes itself as "XXXXXXX Board model Uno" (I'll post a pic, prolly tomorrow, of the back where the imprinting is done).. it isn't trying to pass itself off as an "official" board. Have they done that in the past?

532

focalist:
Have they done that in the past?

Yes.

But their past conduct is irrelevant. They currently have a board for sale that violates the trademark and is described as an "Arduino Uno R3".

533

Very uncool. Glad you let me know, they won't be getting my business again. I just browsed their site and found the one you are talking about- that's not the model I ordered or got.. mine was (and is) clearly a clone, and the only logo associated with Arduino is the big infinity on the back, and a line of text "www.arduino.cc" under the Made in China stamp. Everywhere else is prominently their own logo. Even the infinity on the back doesn't have the +- symbols. I purchased mine through their ebay store, which doesn't carry the Arduino branded board (I don't think).. so all I ever saw was clearly a clone.

Very strange, too, as they have their own branded everything- including the xxxxx Uno I got (obviously I am substituting the x's for the name). I would assume that given the standards, the device I got is "okay" in terms of branding.. but if that device that they are selling ISN'T a real Uno when they say it is.. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They also have no other device they claim is the "real thing". Why wouldn't you go for the higher priced Mega? Leonardo? I mean, if you are going to steal, make it worth it, you know? So strange.

What they show on that page is clearly intended to be an Arduino Uno, including replication of the trademarked logo.

Especially since they have right next to it in terms of boards and such, their own branded items- why the heck would they do that? Had I seen that device, not the one I got, I would have believed it to be authentic. Like maybe they would carry the "real thing" and theirs next to it to show theirs was cheaper, you know as an advertising thing or whatever. Talk about cutting your own throat! I was JUST praising the maker on the overall quality of their own branded items, to boot. I went from "Gee, I'd buy that again, maybe it's worth looking at" coming out of me to this. How much repeat business did they just lose from me, and anyone else who read this? I suppose, we can be cynical and say "probably less than they are making selling fakes in the first place..." but then why would you put the UNDERPRICED identical, other than branding, board (visually, anyway) next to it, if you are going to go through the trouble and risk of outright faking the real thing? Why carry anything with your own name? I mean, if you were a counterfeiter, would you really stop at the ATM to pull out real money for groceries, EXCEPT the cash for the eggs, which you pay for with bogus bills... but only the eggs.?

That right there is just plain dumb on their part.. I mean I could see selling the "real McCoy" to highlight your own alternative product (hopefully selling your own I would think).. at even a slightly ABOVE retail price. Dang. And we are sure that they haven't bought and retail those, for the purpose of showing a price point comparison to their own? It just doesn't add up. Why do yourself like that? I mean, there's quite a few Arduino enthusiasts, but in reality, it's overall a small number. Word travels fast. Selling an outright fake is just crazy. They HAD to know this very discussion would be the result.. and I assume that someone is throwing the appropriate rocks at their windows?

Makes no sense to me at all, but thanks for pointing it out!

534

A couple of things come to mind.

Clearly, violation of a trademark or copyright is not ok.

I also don't see the reason for cloners to just copy the arduino designs. As others have pointed out, there are improvement opportunities such as the power supply and input protections (Ruggeduino), I/o (iteadstudio Ethernet / SD/NRf+ unit), etc. for many different designs to coexist happily. Whether you consider the form factor to be important or not, there are alternatives to the official arduino designs that are as good as the official gear.

I understand how blindly copying a design with low cost parts may be lower-risk endeavor but the profit margins are likely tiny too.

535

focalist:
They also have no other device they claim is the "real thing". Why wouldn't you go for the higher priced Mega? Leonardo? I mean, if you are going to steal, make it worth it, you know? So strange.

Couple things.

I think they have production lines using and warehouses full of older parts they're selling off cheap just to hit certain marks on production economies. Tooling and setting up is expensive. You gotta complete so many runs to pay that off. What can I say? I wrote estimation and bidding packages back when we still made things here, made fixtures and jigs, set up and worked parts myself.

That was in a job shop where a shorts run was 10's of something. The real gains are in the millions+ and thinking way down the road.
But what a lot of places don't think about is change, often for the sake of change as much as anything regardless of market rhetoric. The old stuff that does what it always did and suits a huge range of tasks becomes a matter of fashion whether it's clothes, cars or chips.

One reason I got into Arduino instead of using the money to upgrade my PC is because Arduino is simple and I liked my time with simpler computing and know it has value. I can program a 328P with an UNO and use that same DIP 328P all on it's lonesome to do amazing things for cheap.

I also think that the language and culture barrier West to East does count. Let them know with some tact and they may change the labeling. How many things of theirs have we grabbed onto labels and used without knowing the full significance? Probably more than we know if we include corporate interactions. As a country we can't even get terms between our own sub-cultures straight much of the time, with predictable (ongoing bigot-test) results, so give them a chance!

536

focalist:
I would assume that given the standards, the device I got is "okay" in terms of branding..

Absolutely.

Why wouldn't you go for the higher priced Mega? Leonardo? I mean, if you are going to steal, make it worth it, you know? So strange.

For months (possibly a year) all they sold was counterfeit boards. I ran them off about a half-dozen times. I assume the board in question is old stock they are trying to dump.

And we are sure that they haven't bought and retail those, for the purpose of showing a price point comparison to their own?

Yup. They are counterfeit. If you look closely at the picture the font face is different on some of the labels. (I also have confirmation from the Arduino folks.)

It just doesn't add up. Why do yourself like that?

From my previous interactions with them I would say it's because they don't care. As long as people buy their stuff (and people do seem to be buying their stuff) they don't care that they are deceiving their customers. I guess that makes them greedy.

Makes no sense to me at all, but thanks for pointing it out!

No problem.

537

GoForSmoke:
I think they have production lines using and warehouses full of older parts they're selling off cheap just to hit certain marks on production economies.

I think they just get the parts at a lower price straight from the distributors. Here in the US it's not uncommon to see things like prescription drugs priced much higher domestically then they are sold overseas. Why would electronic parts -- where competition is much, much higher in China -- not see a similar price decline. The manufacturers have to price them to match the market.

You look at all those cheap LM2596 modules on eBay and there's no way to build one yourself that cheaply; you just can't get the LM2596 at a lower price than the entire module. Now if TI started pricing the LM2596 in China the same as they do in the US I can guarantee those boards wouldn't be built with TI LM2596's; any number of fabs would quickly duplicate the chip.

Yeah it's possible that there's a warehouse out there with a few million overstock LM2596s, but the chip is pretty ubiquitous and still in full production. I can't imagine anyone needing to liquidate it.

538

You get big price breaks by buying insane quantities or by licensing manufacture and making same.

What we individuals get is the small quantity (less than 100,000's, less than 1,000's) price jacked up to retail levels. If I can make it at a factory for $1, retail is $4+ to whatever cloud in the sky the market will bear... if the price threatens to drop then like oil and gas it will be exported cheaper to mass-buyers offshore. Look at how they do food here. If the price might drop then milk gets spilled down creeks, wheat gets burned or sent to Russia and oranges get rolled into the outgoing tide. Hail Mammon, guardian of Profit!

539

In general regarding cheap components, I try the less cynical view that maybe these lowball 'gimme' prices are simply a loss leader.. Meaning you buy something super cheap, you like it, and come back and buy more stuff but at retail. If they lose fifty cents to get a sale that turns the net into a fifty dollar profit- "taking a loss" is worth it even at a 1% success rate. I do in fact browse the items of sellers that have the lowball items... getting a potential customer to browse your catalog is the holy grail for a mail order seller...

540

Okay, so now onto something more fun. So I was up to my usual shenanigans, and have purchased (for a buck including shipping) : a "North Atlantic 801 Synchro Panel Meter".

This was one the of the first successful "dollar fishing" bids in quite some time, so I went and looked this thing up.

It appears this is a seriously useful device for CNC and that type of thing- it's a display unit for sensing and displaying angle of rotation. From the documentation blurb:

"The 800 & 801 are Synchro/Resolver Panel Meters, with resolutions up to 0.01°, and accuracies up to 0.03°. Both Synchro or Resolver mode can be programmed and the unit operates over a broad frequency band of 47Hz to 1200Hz. "

What the heck is it, and how can I misuse it..that's the question. Of course, if it's actually valuable and slipped through the cracks (has happened before) I maybe ought to looking into flipping it for a profit. I do prefer to play with toys rather than sell them, though... but with the projects I have going on right now I really would be better off getting some profit.

There's an industrial electronics recycler and dealer next town over, they buy and sell a lot of PLC stuff- so I am hoping to take a few things over there and do a little Yankee Swap. They have racks full of bench gear, decent hardware I could use well-- and I have several industrial electronics devices, new in packaging, that I have no use for but know are worth quite a bit. One's an industrial ultrasound sensor- designed for measuring volume in huge tanks and the like.. I know it's worth a few hundred. If I can swap a few of these items that I've gotten for a dollar each for a couple hundred dollars worth of bench equipment-- Win.

EDIT: Erm-- let's see if the guy actually ships this. After looking around a bit, the only other ones I could find are USED (this one is new in shrinkwrap) selling for $1000 and up!