Create an electrostatic dust attracter (lifter)

Projects General Guidance
1

Hi,

Everybody knows the microfiber wipes. When used, they are charged with static electricity (+ charges). So they attract the negatively charged dust and hairs.
It works great attached to a broomstick to attract dust. But you need to clean the wipe regularly with water or your hands (or use disposable wipes, what a waste...).

In the same way that an old TV attracts dust because its surface is (+), I would like to build some kind of surface which I charge with 100V or 1000 V hoping it will lift the dust.
After that, pushing a simple button would discharge the surface or even better, make is (-) in order to release the dust (you know that - and - repel each other).

1 - Do you think it is a stupid idea because of something I didn't think about ?
2 - Do you think it is easy to build ? Would you advice using one voltage amplifier (or many in series) ?
3 - Do you know if this can be dangerous or <1KV is okay ? Because I'm new to arduino and electronics.
4 - Does anybody know if 100V would be sufficient to lift dust ?

2

kaescrat:
1 - Do you think it is a stupid idea because of something I didn't think about ?

What is it exactly you're trying to build? An electronic swiffer? A robotic dust collector? What?

I do think there are some things you haven't thought about, though...

kaescrat:
2 - Do you think it is easy to build ? Would you advice using one voltage amplifier (or many in series) ?

The fact that you are asking these questions say to me you're no where ready for this level of a project...

kaescrat:
3 - Do you know if this can be dangerous or <1KV is okay ? Because I'm new to arduino and electronics.

First off, you need a ground understanding in electricity, electrical theory, breakdown voltages, what resistance and current means, etc - before you even begin to contemplate a high-voltage system like your wanting. What you are wanting to do can easily cause death, without you even having the chance to realize you did something wrong before you hit the floor. A high voltage project such as you're describing (and it would need to be high voltage to get it to work; I would venture that 1KV may not even be enough - but then again I don't work with high voltage, because I understand the problems and hazards involved, and I want to live a long life - plus I have other projects needing to be done first) is a dangerous thing to work on, even when you do understand what you are doing.

kaescrat:
4 - Does anybody know if 100V would be sufficient to lift dust ?

I doubt it - that isn't to say, though, the 100V is somehow "safe" to play with (what kind of current can the source supply would be a relevant question in regards to safety).

I strongly suggest you find a different project to work on as your "first" project in electronics and the Arduino; keep this one, whatever it is, in the back of your head, and continue to study up on things as you work on simpler projects first. Learn how to be safe around electricity, including high-voltage systems. Develop the habits now for working with high-voltage as you work with lower voltage projects, and you'll be that much safer for if/when you -do- work with high-voltage projects (Do you know what the "one hand rule" is? Do you know how to safely use a meter on an operating circuit for test measurements? These and other safety-related questions are important when working around "high" voltage, including mains voltage sources!).

Once you have the knowledge, you can then decide if you are willing to take the risk, and you will have a much better understanding of what the risks are. Having this knowledge is critical to being safe. From what I understand, the hazards of being shocked rise as you work on such projects; in fact, expect to be shocked! The question, though, will be whether the shock you receive will be something minor (some pain, maybe some minor burns) - or something major (you wind up in the hospital - if you are lucky - or the morgue if you're not). All you can do is have understanding, and take precautions; you can be reasonably safe working with high-voltages - but you must have it ingrained into you to be ever vigilant. As soon as you let your guard down, get lazy, get complacent or be hasty in what you are doing, is the time when you might end up on the floor, wondering how you got there, and why your chest hurts (assuming you survive, of course).

3

wow! you put new to electronics and high voltage in the same sentence. bad idea.
Don't know what your on about voltage amplifiers, they don't get anywhere near 1000v or 1kv if you will. You will need to use a transformer, a flyback will work good from a old crt tv. This will give you ~20kv which is alright for a electrostatic lifter, not 1kv! Head over to 4hv.org (great place, member there myself, all about high voltage) for this kind of thing, not a micro controller forum! Anyway it takes expertise in power electronics to build what you want here, which from what i'm guessing you are lacking. This is not a good project for someone of your level, IT CAN KILL YOU :astonished:!!! belive me 20kv does not feel nice! :stuck_out_tongue:

4

After that, pushing a simple button would discharge the surface or even better, make is (-) in order to release the dust (you know that - and - repel each other).

So push a button and the dust gets scattered again, great.

Try thinking of another project apart from the considerations above this will simply not work.

5

It takes less than 7ma to kill a human being, that is ofcourse assuming it passed through your heart and causes cardiac arrest, higher voltages meaning its easier to get larger currents thru your body, higher voltages <20k being the worst since you don't need to be that close before it arcs through you into ground,
a tazer is usually more than 6 million volts but doesn't kill you because the current passes between the two electrodes not to ground
my suggestion if you are to try this expirement, which does sound interesting, is not to be too close when you turn the power on
and good luck finding a hv dc supply, then can be quite expensive and probably more than a microfiber wipe

6

"Volts jolt, mills kill"

7

Thank you very much everyone for your answers. I heard you advices, I will NOT do this.

1 - I though I could power the system with a little 9V battery as I though 9V battery could go up to 10kv with good electronics
2 - I though a 9V battery could not hurt anybody as it would not be able to deliver high enough current

Just by curiosity can you say a word about this 2 affirmations ?

8
  1. is very true, but as mentioned before 10kV is not much good to gather dust.
  2. is not true because there is enough current in a 9V battery to kill you, it is just that the voltage is not there to drive that current through you. Give it a kick start and you do.
9

Hi Grumpy_Mike,

Thank you for answers.
Where did you find the information about how many kV is needed to attract dust ?

So when I use a microfiber wipe, I generated >10kV of static charges ?

PS : About "So push a button and the dust gets scattered again, great." It was in the idea to release the dust in a collector. My idea was an "electronic broom" which free you from the task of washing the wipes of a electrostatic broom. Or free you from the task of gathering dust with a classic broom.

10

Where did you find the information about how many kV is needed to attract dust ?

Experience with TV & CRT tubes and other high voltage devices.

So when I use a microfiber wipe, I generated >10kV of static charges ?

Well you could, I once measured 14kV between myself and a conveyer belt at one University I was at. But no I don't think it does, the point is that the static in a wipe needs to be much less because you are actually in contact with the dust. It holds rather than attracts it from the air. For your system to work the dust attracting surface would have to be a conductor, so you would not wipe it over a surface it would have to do the attraction at a much larger distance. The attractive force falls off with the inverse square of the distance so a very small distance gets a lot of attraction.
If you had a conductive substance that you wiped over surface that in itself would be quite dangerous, charging up conducting devices and discharging when you dusted grounded things.

About "So push a button and the dust gets scattered again, great.

Thinking about it I am not sure it would be scattered with any great force, maybe not even enough to overcome the surface attraction of the dust. Think of the dust caked round the line output transformer in a TV, that does not fly out when the charge is gone.