Sometimes i reply to topics posted in the international part of the forum and i adhere to the rules of not posting in anything other than the language it belongs to, I use Google translate, and of course i am more hesitant and or motivated to respond. If the topic name gives me an indication that i might be helpful, i will hit the translate button so i can more or less read what it is about. In Dutch i don't have to and in some other languages i already have a general idea and would still like some details a bit more clear.
Now the thing is that to respond requires more energy because of the language barrier, but with the help of google translate i manage, but actually it would be easier if the OP would hit the translate button, so that the OP can see both the original as well as the translated version and can pick out words that probably don't require translation or may be incorrectly translated somehow.
I know what the policy is, but it somehow seems counter productive to limit the response to the original language. The goal of the forum should be to share information between users, and help users to solve their issue. This policy is making it more difficult to do so.
Any opinions ? I mean for me it actually means i am less likely to help someone who posts in another language than English or Dutch, simply because it requires more effort to do so ~0~
I've contributed once in the French section and I know the pain.
Don't forget that if you post in another language (e.g. English) in a international section you might be forcing other people to use a translator.
And imagine that you post in Dutch or English in a topic in the French section, somebody posts in German in that same topic, somebody else posts in Italian in that topic, some people might post in Russian and some French speaking people will post in French.
Now nearly everybody might need to translate.
Note:
It actually upsets me if I find a mixed language topics. I sometimes post a remark to use the intended language.
I am opposed to "polluting" the international forum with other languages. I only subscribed myself to the languages I can read directly (Dutch, English and German) and when answering in the German section I use Google translate (and mention that as well in my answer).
If people post in a local language forum with such a specific question, that they would need the bigger audience to pick it up, they should make the effort of using a translator to post their question in English in the international forum.
Have you ever attempted to write in a language other than English in the International section, which is exclusively in English?
You'll quickly be informed by a moderator that English is the only language allowed. If you want to write in other languages, you'll need to navigate to the specific sections for each language.
The same applies to sections with a specific language. If you want to respond in their language, do so, or stay in the International section.
Guglielmo
P.S.: And YES, in the Italian section (which is the one where I am a moderator), the only language allowed is Italian, so please make an effort, use Google Translate, and post your response in Italian.
I’m completely opposed to this as well. If the original poster had wanted to discuss in English, they would have posted in the general forum.
The main purpose of having a language-specific forum (which focuses on the language, not the country) is to allow users to engage in their preferred language and connect with a community.
Remember, when you reply to a post, you’re not just responding to the OP, but also to hundreds of future readers who will come across this post because it matches their question. So even if OP could read English, it does not mean others do.
While I understand that it takes effort to translate or learn a new language (I’m working on better mastering a couple more myself), choosing to participate in a language-specific forum means embracing the language. Use a translator if needed (I find ChatGPT is much better than Google Translate).
Additionally, posting in the forum’s language saves hundreds of future non-English-speaking members from having to individually translate your answer, which consumes server resources each time and increases energy consumption. Doing it once only is always better for the planet
Side note from the frenchy in me
Using English in a forum where another language is spoken can come across as both rude and imperialistic. It disregards the native language and culture of the community and may imply that English is superior or more important. This attitude can marginalize non-English speakers, making the forum feel unwelcoming to those who prefer or are more comfortable communicating in their own language.
Side note 2:
I’ve traveled extensively around the globe during my career and making an effort to use even a little of the local language can make a significant impact. It shows respect for the culture and a willingness to connect, which locals often appreciate and it’s fun. Even if they switch to English to ease communication, your attempt can break the ice, foster goodwill, and create a more authentic and positive interaction. It demonstrates humility and an openness to learning, which can lead to warmer, more engaging experiences.
Yes i understand the policy, don't get me wrong here.
Oh i do or more to the point i would if i could be bothered.
But it reduces the amount of response one will receive, particularly from people that do have a lot of knowledge on certain matters.
Well the issue with doing this i found is that, whoever reads the translation, has no access to the original, which can even out some of the mistakes in the details.
hehe ! a Frenchy indeed. Anyway isn't French actually Parisian dialect that was forced upon the rest of the nation ?
From the Dutchy, all foreigners here tend to learn how to speak Dutch eventually, but the native English speakers are by far the slowest to do so.
Oh yes that for sure. Or the opposite explanation. When visiting tourist villages where many of the tourists are German, they don't even try to speak Dutch or Frysian, and to me that is a little rude.
Downloading a song once is better than using a streaming service etc. etc. There are so many things that have waaay more impact that i think we can negate this.
So what do you do when there is not enough response to a question ? do you allow the same question to be asked in English (duplicate-posting is also against forum rules)
Yes but we are many times dealing with people who have very little experience both with the subject and with the forum.
Just to be clear the starting of this thread was inspired by me posting a response to a question in German, i used Google translate, and made quite an effort adding screenshots as part of my explanation, and the OP has not responded after my post and no one else has, which can mean 2 things of course. Either the issues has been resolved (the most common result) or the OP has given up. Either way it's rude of course. Afterwards i received a PM from someone going into details of my response and how some words were translated when they shouldn't have been etc. I don't want to sound like someone generalizing a nationality, but eh well in a rather German way i might add.
Anyway in my opinion the Forum and it's rules should be here to benefit the users as much as possible and that should include easy of use for those that are trying to help.
When i look at the first Sticky in the Dutch section it reads :
(Replace this first paragraph with a brief description of your new category. This guidance will appear in the category selection area, so try to keep it below 200 characters.)
Use the following paragraphs for a longer description, or to establish category guidelines or rules:
Why should people use this category? What is it for?
How exactly is this different than the other categories we already have?
What should topics in this category generally contain?
Do we need this category? Can we merge with another category, or subcategory?
(not translated, it says so in English !)
and
Hallo beste Nederlandstaligen.
Op het Arduino forum kan je in deze hoek je vragen ook in het Nederlands stellen. Er zijn natuurlijk minder mensen die je een antwoord kunnen geven dan als je het in het Engels doet; maar het voordeel van je eigen moedertaal te kunnen gebruiken kan het voor jou ook makkelijker maken.
Wat je moet weten voor je een bericht nalaat.
(here i leave the translate button for use to you guys)
But if we don't want the specific language parts to be polluted (to much) there may be other things that can be tried.
Allow the translation to be posted as well as the original.
Create a subsection that does allow multi-languages.
Allow the OP to decide if multi-language is permitted with a setting when creating the post.
In the end the goal should be how to help people in the most efficient way. Making an effort to translate can go at the expense of the effort that was otherwise made in the response. We don't want duplicate posts, or do we when posted in a different language ? Somehow to me, 2 threads are worse than 1 thread in 2 (or more) languages.
If they fully thought about it all and read all the 'how to use this forum' stickys and so on and so forth.
YES, I always recommend, in these situations, to re-post the question in the International section and... NO, I do not consider this cross-posting, if there are no answers in the original section or there is insufficient knowledge of the subject.
But what if there are some answers, but the issue is not resolved ? The previous answers are then not available to the new viewers, how to resolve this ? I mean is this the most efficient way, or might it be better to change the topic name, move to the general "English" section and explain that this is what happened on the 'language section'
I thought about that and I suspect that the people who have little experience with the subject and/or forum usually ask generic questions (it won't upload, etc) that can be answered rather easy by the smaller group of local language readers. And if no response comes, I agree with @gpb01 his recommendation.
I do not oppose per se if people post a question in their own language as long as there is a (google) translated English version in the same post (international section). As many people speak more than one language this could help to clarify the problem. (automatic translations are sometimes just not good).
A bigger problem imho is that (mostly new) people do not provide the information needed. This causes the first 3 or more answers to extract the problem at hand. This problem exists at least since 2010. Not enough information is a problem in any language.
This is a good question. Not easy to answer though, because of all the pros and cons.
This is what happened to me:
The first time I saw the Forum, I didn't notice there was a dedicated section to Portuguese language. I'm used to read in english, so it didn't make a difference. Then I saw the Portuguese section and got happy, but soon I realized almost no one answered there and this still happens.
I don't think the reason is that there are no Arduino users on Portuguese speaking countries, but yet the fact that those ones who can read/write in english will do so because it increases the chances on being helped.
The result is that:
I like when some of the other language experienced users come to help even using Google translator. People are here to get help not to practice xenophobia.
despite the Forum guidelines, when I see more complex questions, I suggest the person to write (in English) on the International part of the Forum. So, I totally agree with
This could be a change in the Forum policy.
Despite my poor french, that worked quite well for me in Paris too!
Same was with the Portuguese section. So with the help of @PerryBebbington I did the translation and adapted it to Portuguese (thanks Perry).
To wrap up, my opinion is:
I agree with @hmeijdam and @sterretje that posting in different languages on the international part of Forum can make things confusing. For the same reason, as @J-M-L and @gpb01 said, on the specific languages parts of the Forum that specific language should be respected;
I like @robtillaart suggestion of posting the same content in the original language and in English, but I don't think people will do it. So, posting the same question in different languages should not be considered cross posting;
It would be even more clear if the new post would have a link to the old one for purpose of reference, so not to give the same answers twice in different languages.
My view is that it should be considered cross posting unless the discussion only happens in one place.
As we often say and explain here:
Cross-posting is against the Arduino forum rules. The reason is that duplicate posts can waste the time of the people trying to help. Someone might spend a lot of time investigating and writing a detailed answer on one topic, without knowing that someone else already did the same in the other topic.
So I'm fine (and sometimes encourage this) if someone does not get a response in the language specific forum they posted and are stuck that they would actually make a remark and say "I'm moving this question to the general forum (with a link), that's where the discussion will happen now".
then a moderator or leader could close that thread and the discussion will be ongoing in the other category. This way all the participants get a chance to see all the answers and there is no duplicate work.
