Hope it is the right category...
I like to read the forum in German, Italian and English.
I think it is not acceptable, that every language has its own forum rules! After 8 years in this community, after posting a message in the Italian forum, I got the answer to read the forum rules in Italian (where the moderator itself added something like 40 rules invented by himself) and to respect them.
It is also not acceptable that this moderator is threatened to block users and the posts of the members of this forum if they don't respect the rules invented by him.
It should be a nice place where people can ask for help. With an aggressive approach from the moderators, new users don't use the forum anymore.
I can't see this aggressive approach in the German or English forum.
It is not normal that every language, in the SAME forum, has another list of rules!
it's probably going to quickly turn into a post more suited for the bar category
I suppose your refer to this extensive set of rules
I've been caught a few times answering a question (in my weak Italian) and forgetting one of the rules, and @gpb01 usually is quick to flag this in a direct way but it's not agressive. Dura lex sed lex.
I don't find it exceptionally agressive (it's cultural as well) to ask that someone introduces himself and read the law of the land when joining a community (the Italian sub-forum) before posting a question and expecting help... I can see how this saves time later on for everyone and moderators when needing to ask for using code tags, providing sufficient information etc... and there is contextual information about why this is being asked for and consequences.
16.7 Alcuni non capiscono il perché della "presentazione" (obbligatoria) ... ... se si chiede la presentazione NON è per chissà quale strana curiosità ... è perché, prima di rispondere, si va a vedere chi si ha difronte e si cerca di adattare la risposta alla sua preparazione, quindi, più completa è, più chi risponde sa fino a che punto spingersi. Si rammenta che la mancata presentazione, nonostante i richiami dei moderatori, oltre ad essere un evidente sintomo di "maleducazione", è causa di "BAN", inoltre, risposte fornite all'utente che NON si è ancora presentato (... e quindi in violazione del regolamento), verranno temporaneamente nascoste sino a presentazione effettuata.
At the end of the day, the moderator's responsibility is to keep his part of the forum tidy and it's quite a job! So I'm not shocked that personal judgment and local culture comes into play and moderators are human and can decide to apply more stringent rules to reach that goal. The important part to me is that it's documented.
Really? ... Evidently, for example, you do not take into account the fact that there are different national "legislations" that obligate certain things in the specific rules ... e.g. in the Italian rules you will find points that prohibit talking about anything operating beyond very low voltage. This is because in Italy there are regulations that, if you even give only advice on some things, where for example certifications are needed (putting your hands in the electrical system) and a reader gets hurt because of your suggestions, the magistrates will include you among "the people under investigation" and ... it's not exactly a pleasant thing.
Therefore, it is obvious that each nation and each language may have its own specific rules.
This has been discussed before in other threads ... this is just a duplicate discussion.
Ok, I will try to show you how someone could feel using this forum:
Term of services - 14 pages (or 3600 words to read).
After 10-20 minutes, the user is able to finally write the first post.
After posting the first message you get an ANSWER to you post, YUPPIE!
Ehm no... The answer to the message is:
"Didn't you read the term of services? You have to read it in Italian too (other 16 pages)"
...
"Please read them carefully and post a message here. If not, I will remove your post".
This sentence is present so many times in the Italian forum, that chatGPT would define it as "spam message" rather than "answer"
It is frustrating for the moderator, to move messages from one topic to the other one.
It is frustrating for a user to understand why he need to post a message and talk about himself in a dedicated Italian section, before he can use the Italian forum.
It is ok. I will accept it and I will not post any answer on the Italian forum anymore (I will reply to the users with PM).
Maybe moderators can help new users with PM too, instead of spamming the same answer in the entire forum.
@gpb01: I can't find any Italian regulation where you need to talk about you, before you can write something. There is a profile in this forum where users can write about themself.
At beginning (Jul 2012), the therad "Presentazioni nuovi iscritti, fatevi conoscere da tutti!" was created by ... Massimo Banzi and his first post was:
Se sei un nuovo iscritto al forum fatti conoscere dal resto della comunità italiana spiegando chi sei, dove sei e cosa ti piace fare con Arduino.
Is a matter of Italian "culture" and "politeness" ...
If you have been around here enough Reality is that lots (most) of newbies did not spend one minute reading anything on how to use the forum, and post a half baked question with not enough information, in the wrong category and sometimes with mentions "urgent", "give me code now", "I've this homework due tomorrow morning and my teacher did not explain anything", ...
There are countless posts in the English forums where the first few answers (typed usually at about the same time) are from old timer helpers asking the OP to read the rules, add code tags, provide necessary information etc... This need is so frequent that many helpers and moderators have developed keyboard short cuts or even arduino driven buttons that type a text as a boilerplate answer.
Again and again there have been various attempts (auto detection of missing code tags) and requests to add some mandatory reading before you can even create your first post or an ask for check boxes "Yes I read this and that", "yes my post is in the right category", "yes I'm using code tags", "Yes I described my circuit",... and the post How to get the best out of this forum has been improved but it seems that either some stuff are impossible or many users just don't care to read what's pinned at the top of the forum.
So having a stringent stance on what to do once before you can get going does not seem abusive to me and it helps OP get the help needed faster.
side note : there is probably a good reason why this (venting) thread has 500+ answers and counting...
Appunto... "Italians are better", right? It is in the title and this is what I mean.
Is a matter of Italian culture to say everything about you (are you a stalker?) before you can ask something? NO!
The question, again is/are:
Why need Italian speaking people post a message about themself and all other don't need it?
Why a moderator need to be so aggressive and spam on the entire forum and can't do it in an Italian way?
Massimo Banzi didn't wrote a good sentence. He wrote a fantastic sentence. It is friendly.
You are not. You seems to be a frustrated person, that like to play the police. I can understand it, if every day there is a new user that doesn't talk about his life (and it is sooooo important for you to know all about his life) - every day you need to say the same.
But again. The MAIN forum is made by many people trying to help each other. Why must be the Italian speaking (remember, that this is a international forum, not italian forum) section different? Do you really think, Italians are better?
it's OK to say so if you disagree with the Italian sub-forum rules but don't distort the facts.
that's not what's being asked
16.7 Alcuni non capiscono il perché della "presentazione" (obbligatoria) ... ... se si chiede la presentazione NON è per chissà quale strana curiosità ... è perché, prima di rispondere, si va a vedere chi si ha difronte e si cerca di adattare la risposta alla sua preparazione, quindi, più completa è, più chi risponde sa fino a che punto spingersi.
Do you find the law agressive? would you be fine for people to go through the red light and create an accident and say "ooops I forgot to read the Traffic Laws"... Having rules and not enforcing them is like having no rules.
where did you see that on the entire forum? there is a rule set for the Italian part.
At the end of the day what's the real problem about introducing yourself or read the forum's guidelines and be done with it? what do you loose?
At present it is, without a doubt, one of the most orderly, correct, "flames-free" sections ... opinion of many of the "frequent visitors" (and not only mine) who want it that way and gladly accept its rules.
You don't want to? No one forces you to visit it, you can go to the other sections where you feel comfortable.
Personally, I will not return further to the issue. Bye,
Where I see it? Just open the last 10 posts in the Italian section. 6-7 of them are requests to read the rules.
But I see what you mean.
I just noticed it and was trying to help you to create a nicer (Italian) section. Maybe a private message instead of a post-reply would be a nicer approach?
I used the forum in 2015, when the notifications never worked and you never received emails when someone wrote to your post. When the page crashed and you had to login 5-6 times every day. Now it is much better and notifications works. I am sure you can also insert the possibility to force to write the first post in a section, before someone can write another post (with the badge-system).
Just this. I never said, the Arduino-Forum-Law (can we call it rules?) is bad. I just said that there is a different list of rules based on the language you want to write. I respect them and I will not write in the Italian forum anymore (gpb was clear).
sure but the point is the same. if a rule is not enforced, is it a rule? (probably you should call that a best practice, a recommendation etc).
I think a lot of us frequent helpers wish this was the case (and other mandatory steps before your first post were enforced) ... It has been asked with limited to no success...
Yeah, that's the point... You might have rules but 60 to 70% of the posters don't care by your count.
look at the main forums and see how often the first few messages are about how to format code, how to post or phrase a question correctly etc... This is intermixed with some posters who provide input anyway and the post becomes a mess to read.
By enforcing stringent rules you keep the forum clean and to the point. Clean Posts help not only the OP but also countless others who find the post through googling for solutions (esp if the title was well chosen and not just "I've a problem" or "help needed urgently")
just my view. I'm an engineer, I like things to be tidy and I did not complain that I had to read and respect the set of rules the compiler expects me to follow to code in C++ and I don't complain when it refuses to compile my code because there is a type mismatch or syntax error...
Its absolutely OK for me. Different places have different mods, and the mods would like to make the place as smooth as possible. Therefore it is fine when one mod thinks he/she needs clearer rules. In the end we all just want to come along with this forum.
The answer you got wasn't aggressive. You were asked to do something. If you disagree - it is up to you flag the post it and let it check by others.
oh ... I have a complete different opinion. The toxic level in the German forum is for sure a lot higher than in most of the English ones. I'm not reading in the Italian forum very often, but when I do - it doesn't sound so bad at all.
