Measuring Current

Ok, so I think I'm understanding current a little better. This got me wondering, is there a safe way to double-check the current range? This came-up as I was trying to understand how to "know" which battery packs are safe to use with my Arduino or other microcontroller boards.

Feeling a bit brave, I took a 2xAA battery pack (3V ... just as a test, not to use on the Arduino) with fresh alkaline batteries, set my multi-meter to the symbol that I think represents DC 10Amps ("10A" with a straight and dotted line above it), plugged the leads into COM (black) and "Unfused 10A/60sec MAX" (red) and touched it to the battery pack for a few seconds (<5 sec). I don't recall what the readings were but they jumped around a bit and I want to say they were in the 2.xxx range. I think I tried again with a few other settings hoping to find a better range and finally figured I must be doing something wrong. I went to move the battery pack out of the way and found it was pretty WARM ... possibly considered HOT ... even for such short duration tests.

So what happened? In hindsight, I'm thinking the multi-meter wasn't providing much resistance so I basically just shorted the battery pack. Is that right? Either way, what's the right way to measure current?

So what happened? In hindsight, I'm thinking the multi-meter wasn't providing much resistance so I basically just shorted the battery pack. Is that right?

Yes, that's correct and that's why there is a separate plug on your multimeter... So you don't accidently switch your meter to 'current' and short something out.

Either way, what's the right way to measure current?

Well, you shouldn't try to measure the short-circuit current of a battery! :wink: If you want to find the current capability of a battery, check the manufacturer's specs. (Note that the Amp-Hour rating is a measure of battery-life or energy storage. It's not the battery's maximum current rating.)

If you have an existing circuit, you "break the circuit" and insert the meter in series like [u]this[/u]. It's kind-of a pain and the fact is, we rarely measure current. Most of the time we calculate or estimate the current.

Or, at work I have a bench power supply that measures voltage and current (total power supply current, of course) so I can monitor the current without breaking the circuit. I use my meter to measure voltage & resistance every day, but I can't remember the last time I used it to measure current.

DVDdoug:
and the fact is, we rarely measure current. Most of the time we calculate or estimate the current.

... I use my meter to measure voltage & resistance every day, but I can't remember the last time I used it to measure current.

Ok, thanks. I was admittedly just trying to learn through experimenting. Most of my wall-warts have some kind of output rating to give you an idea of what it could power. My AA batter pack is 3V (1.5 x 2) but I don't know how to know what kind of current is available in order to know what kind of devices this (or any other battery pack) could theoretically power. So I was thinking why not try and measure the current with a multi-meter? After all, "What could go wrong when experimenting with a couple of AAs?" But I think I'm getting a better understanding and in hind-sight, that was probably a useless, if not unsafe, test. I ran across what I think is the spec sheet for a Radio Shack AA and it almost suggests they will "try" to provide as much current as they can but the real question is "how long" will they last (before draining or worse, losing physical integrity).

I had always had it in my mind that devices were sensitive to the output current rating of a power supply. For example, I was thinking I could damage something like a digital clock by replacing it's original 12V 800mA wall-wart with one rated at 12V 2.5A. But what I think I'm learning (like from my other post mentioned earlier) is that at minimum, the power supply needs to be able to provide "enough" for the devices ... though there may be other compelling reasons to "limit" the amount of avail current (for example, personal safety when tinkering).

Look at the battery, they may say right on it what they are rated for.
Alkaline AAs are typically good for ~2500mAH. You can probably find NiMH or LiIon or LiPo with similar current capacity.

Will they output 2.5A for an hour? Probably not, I think they'd burn up instead. But they will output a goodly amount of current short term if you're not careful.

Using a 2500mA (2.5A) wallwart in place of a 800mA (0.8A) wallwart would be fine, the device being powered will only draw the current it needs.

CrossRoads:
Look at the battery, they may say right on it what they are rated for.
Alkaline AAs are typically good for ~2500mAH.

I'm not hopeful as they are literally the Radio Shack brand name AA ... orange and white label and all.

That's an interesting metric in that link - "2500mAh @ 50mA" ... is that another way of saying, "Under 50mA load, it can run for 2500mAh/50mA = 50h or 50 hours"? If so, then like you pointed out, if we ran it under a 2500mA load and burned-up after 20 minutes, I guess that would be expressed as, "mAh/2500mA=.3h" or "833mAh @ 2500mA" 8) .

UncleMoki:
"Unfused 10A/60sec MAX"

Guess that meter uses the honor system...
My meters have 2 inputs for current. A 200mA and 20A, both fused.
In general, I rarely use them, but it comes in handy to check current ratings of dc motors (running and stall).

arduino_x:
Hmm ok, always wondered why current had its own plug. We learn every day, thanks for that.

No, that's not the reason at all, the high current range has a separate 4-terminal shunt resistor
permanently wired to the terminals (its usually a thick piece of wire of a suitably chosen alloy.

You can't switch that with the rotary switch on the multimeter because the currents much higher
that the switch contacts can tolerate, so the 2 sense terminals are switched instead.

Google kelvin measurement and 4-terminal shunt for more details.

tinman13kup:
Guess that meter uses the honor system...
My meters have 2 inputs for current. A 200mA and 20A, both fused.
In general, I rarely use them, but it comes in handy to check current ratings of dc motors (running and stall).

Yeah, that seemed a bit odd ... like, "Go ahead ... but don't say I didn't warn you." Mine also has "200mA fused" terminals but as you can tell from my earlier comments, I didn't quite know what to expect and at the time I was wondering how I was supposed to know which terminals and settings to use. In hindsight, I guess I chose to go with "safe to expect you'll get a reading" over "safe enough for the device settings to handle" :astonished: .

UncleMoki:
Yeah, that seemed a bit odd ... like, "Go ahead ... but don't say I didn't warn you." Mine also has "200mA fused" terminals but as you can tell from my earlier comments, I didn't quite know what to expect and at the time I was wondering how I was supposed to know which terminals and settings to use. In hindsight, I guess I chose to go with "safe to expect you'll get a reading" over "safe enough for the device settings to handle" :astonished: .

Certainly. If I thought I would be anywhere near 200mA, I would use the 20A hookup first. No need to pop a fuse over the 2400mS it would take to swap the plugin, and if you don't stop to get a drink, it only takes 2 secs

Hi,

Batteries should not be tested for short circuit current because it can damage the meter or the battery or both in a very bad way. Some batteries can even explode.

Meters have internal resistance and meter leads have around 0.050 ohms each usually so it is not a direct short, but it's still too low for a battery in most cases. If you tried to measure a car battery you would blow the fuse in the meter or damage it. Measurements of current are almost always done with a load that is known to be of a reasonable value for that kind of battery. Sometimes the load is just the product it the battery is being used in. Automobile engine cranking currents can go very high in the 100's of amps and require special measurement techniques. One such technique is to use a 'clamp on' ammeter.

The Ampere hour rating is specified at a certain drain current because the Ampere hour rating changes with drain current. For higher currents the Ampere hour rating is lower, and this is reflected in the "P" factor for the battery which is not always published. Some measurements help to find this factor but most of the time we just estimate anyway.

Many batteries actually have a maximum drain current and a maximum charge current. These are cells like Li-ion and they vary quite a bit so one cell may be very different than another. I have some that are rated for 30 amps but others that should not go over 5 amps max drain. Max charge current varies from about 300ma to about 4 amps.

When the current goes up the power lost due to internal resistance of the battery causes heat generation which can destroy the cell or just damage it a little. This can happen while charging also in a 'fast' charger. Some fast chargers can charge NiMH cells in 15 minutes, but the cells get hot. I dont do that myself.

Thanks all for the input. I feel like it's starting to sink-in a bit better. Like I mentioned, I'm just starting out here so I appreciate all of the time/input/thought. Mostly I'm dealing with low-current "fun" projects with my Arduino (or similar) so I'm not sure I'll ever have a proper reason to measure current the way that was outlined by the link posted by DVDdoug earlier. Nonetheless, trying to read though and comprehend the info as well as engaging in forums like this are helpful to learning. Thanks again.

If I remember correctly, there are at least three very recent/active threads from people who did not understand how voltage and current works. This is a recurring thing, and it is potentially dangerous. We should consider making a sticky.

Voltage and current are connected via Ohm's law: R = U/I.
R, the resistance, is in first approximation a fixed quantity of the circuit*. So if U, the voltage, is also given, then I, the current is fully determined. That is why a rating of 5V / 5A on a power supply means that it supplies 5V, and at these 5V, a MAXIMUM current of 5A can be provided. This would happen if a load of 1 Ohm would be connected. If someone would connect a load of 0.1 Ohm, the result depends on the power supply. The voltage could drop below 5V, the supply could become very hot or catch fire, a fuse could burn or it could just shut off.

Think of it like a water system:

  • Voltage is equivalent to pressure. There can still be 2bar on a closed faucet and you can meassure this without spilling any water (e.g. by looking at how much a spring is pressed back by the pressure).
  • Current is how much water flows through a pipe of a certain diameter at a given moment. This depends on the pressure of the faucet and the diameter of the pipe.
  • Resistance can be understood as the diameter of the pipe

Now imagine a faucet and a hydrant. Both might be served by the public water system and have a given pressure, but the hydrant will be able to supply much more water at this pressure then your home faucet. However, if you connected a small enough pipe, both would send the same amount of water through and it would be fine - because they have the same pressure. If you connected a fire fighters hose to your home faucet, on the other hand, just what your faucet can supply would drip out of the hose with almost no pressure on the end.

So voltage (or pressure) is a static quantity. As long as you stay within the ratings, (again, first order) your voltage does not change, regardless of what you connect, be it a 20mA LED or a 2A tablet charger. The current, however, is a dynamic quantity that changes with the load, so you cannot meassure a single value for a supply. So what you did is, you actually shorted the batteries, which would in theory lead to infinite current. But since there is no perfected shortcircuit and "infinite current" is not in the specs of the batteries, what you actually did is you attached a load of the internal resistance of your meter + the wires + the internal resistance of battery, which results in a certain current. This current is not some principle property of your batteries, but rather determined by you setup. It is also not a safe current to use, since you noticed the the batteries became very hot.

No, I wrote "in first order" a few times. Let's have a quick look at the second order. The amount of water (=current) that your faucet can pump into your hose is determined by the diameter of that hose. But if the hose becomes larger, it is more and more determined by the diameter of the pipe going TO your faucet. This is the "internal resistance" of the supply. For some supplies, it will sufficiently limit the current. In your faucet, it usually does, that is why it is mostly safe to open a faucet with full power and nothing connected. It also means, though, that the pressure will not be constant, it will drop down the more water you take. At the hydrant, it will drop considerably later, because it is directly attached to the big pipes under the streat, with more big pipes to the hydrant.
In modern Electronics, on the other hand, the internal resistance is comparably much smaller. It is small enough that the maximal possible current is way higher than the parts of the supply can take. That is important to keep the voltage stable at all rated loads. So exeeding the current rating WILL damage a power supply that is not protected otherwise.
For batteries, internal resistance is usually not determined by wire resistance and such, but by ionic resistence. It is basically a virtual resistor that is determined by the speed at which the chemical reaction the battery can generate charge. So with batteries, you will often already see voltage drop in the range of the specs, but shorted out, they will usually still reach an amount of current that can be very dangerous and even cause the battery to explode. (On the other hand, this is why you always check the voltage of a battery WHILE it is driving a load, not with open contacts.)

You should also note that only because the current is save for the supply, and the voltage low and not considered dangerous, it can still do very bad and potentially dangerous things to the loads attached. A 4 Ohm 1/4W resistor (the common thing you got for your Arduno stuff) as a load on a phone battery will draw a current of 1A from the battery, which is totally fine, but the resistor will still dissipate 4W (P = U*I), which is 16 times it's rating and it will most probably catch fire. A carbon resistor (usually tan colored) will react a little safer that a metal film resistor (usually blue) in that regard. A 5V/1.2A phone charger with an unfortunately damaged plug may very well set your carpet on fire.

All of this was taught to you in high school physics, by the way, you should not have hated that subject and called it useless :wink:

  • It is, of course, not. The effective resistance of LEDs changes with the voltage, microcontroller draw different amounts of currents in different states and so on. But stay with me.