As far as producing your own boards, what are the benefits of one method over the other? The same question stands for the pcb silkscreen itself? (I've seen toner transfers used here too, but don't know how it'd hold up over time).
Too messy to deal with when you can get 10 double sided 50mmx50mm boards with thru hole plating, silkscreen, soldermask for $15, or 10 100mmx100mm boards for $30.
Totally agree with Crossroads on this one. Unless you need one and you need it now it's too messy and time consuming.
I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade, so what's your definition of "messy"
Islandboy85:
I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade
So you should know what an "hourly rate" is...
(and that 10 boards for $15 is a bargain).
Using the toner process:
- Print design
- Clean board
- Apply heat to affix toner to board
- Soak to remove backing paper
- Clean residue off board
(Repeat steps 1 - 5 until happy!)
- Make up etchant
- Etch
8 ) Clean board - Store / dispose of etchant
- Accurately drill holes in board
That's messy to me!
XD
dannable:
Using the toner process:
- Print design
- Clean board
- Apply heat to affix toner to board
- Soak to remove backing paper
- Clean residue off board
(Repeat steps 1 - 5 until happy!)
- Make up etchant
- Etch
8 ) Clean board- Store / dispose of etchant
- Accurately drill holes in board
That's messy to me!
XD
The devil's in the details - the "Repeat steps 1 - 5 until happy" tan take a few attempts if you're unlucky. Storing/disposing of etchant is a pain. Drilling holes "accurately" takes ages, even if you've got equipment. There's always more holes than you imagine.
Make sure your first project is a small robotic CNC machine. There was one on hackaday that made the PCB traces by cutting an outline around them on copper board, then drilled, etc. Very nice - the software was probably a major job to write though.
If your project is building the machine then go ahead. If what you're after is some PCBs then just pay the $10 and let the pros do it.
fungus:
Islandboy85:
I'm an aircraft mechanic by tradeSo you should know what an "hourly rate" is...
(and that 10 boards for $15 is a bargain).
Ha ha ha, yeah I know. I just figured it might be cool to make my own PCB, but it seems like ill need more "stuff" laying about to make them. I guess pang a board house to make them would leave me with a happier wife. Drilling holes is a big issue in my mind. I figure its best to use SMD for homemade PCB.
Islandboy85:
Drilling holes is a big issue in my mind. I figure its best to use SMD for homemade PCB.
You need a drill press to make a decent job of it. Most people I know use the Dremel one:
I'm a screen printer and as a 'test' have made a printed circuit board via screen printing. It worked well. Screen printing boards or having the boards made by a 'house' is applicable to having a quantity of boards made. The toner method is useful if you do not need a bunch of the same board or if you are not sure your board design is good, that it'll work.
In the list of steps noted for using the toner method I have experienced that steps 4 & 5 determine when 'you are happy'. The dubious results of steps four and five can be eliminated by using sign vinyl.
I use an inexpensive home-brewed etchant that doesn't stain. I use as little etchant as possible and the way I get rid of it is to distribute it in the driveway and let it evaporate.
Step ten is a bugger. I have a drill press but even so the procedure is arduous; bits break and the precision is questionable. However, most components are flexible and forgiving.
My post here is to point out that the toner transfer method need not be so 'messy' and is very useful when not needing to commit to a slew of boards. - Scotty
You're still left with having unmarked boards (what many consider the silkscreen, all the parts labels (Reference Designators, R1,C1, etc). You also have to add wires to connect top & bottom traces for any vias that were used.
If doing small SMD parts or fine traces, solder mask makes assembly a lot easier. You have to be sooooo careful applying solder without soldermask.
Islandboy85:
I figure its best to use SMD for homemade PCB.
SMD has problems all of its own...soldering SMD is no joke.
Wow... such dislike for what I consider "an enjoyable use of my time" versus "messy".
All my toner transfer stuff is "once-off" so going through the steps of sending it out to be fabricated are... well... annoying to me. And If a mistake creeps in... Meh... what's the harm in little 28AWG jumper wire?
I have the stuff I need to make it now, so I do. Example: a good Laminator, Drill Press, Pool chemicals... the carbide PCB drills and not really too much of an investment is involved.
Examples below: Yes, Toner silkscreen, locked in place by dullcote clear lacquer (2 light coats)
So to me... the process works... and results are good and a fun way for "me" to spend a Sunday afternoon.
How about 3D printed circuit boards using conductive ink?
Toast Printer, I hope it can print color.
Nice single sided board. How'd you get the black printing on?
Why'd you apparently embed a nano vs just using the components that make one up?
CNC router or mill?
Nice single sided board. How'd you get the black printing on?
Why'd you apparently embed a nano vs just using the components that make one up?
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Black printing is just toner applied the same way you do with copper. I lock it in place with Future floor wax also known as Clear Acrylic (the copper side gets dullcote) though it sticks pretty well. FYI: I use an apache laminator model al13p.
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I considered building it with a simple DIP 328P as a starting point... but I had a nano handy and well.. it fit so nice, I kept it. Not something I would normally do but the nano is just so convenient.
It's a work in progress... so maybe my next revision gives me back a nano... but to be honest... I sort of feel I'm using it as intended,
LC Meter – Working… | pwillard.com The project status.
pwillard:
Wow... such dislike for what I consider "an enjoyable use of my time" versus "messy".
Not at all. If you enjoy doing it, go ahead.
OTOH, if all you want are some PCBs for something...this is a time consuming, messy way to do it.
yeah, I guess it's sort of like saying "write documentation for that". Some people love it while others despise it.
pwillard:
Wow... such dislike for what I consider "an enjoyable use of my time" versus "messy".All my toner transfer stuff is "once-off" so going through the steps of sending it out to be fabricated are... well... annoying to me. And If a mistake creeps in... Meh... what's the harm in little 28AWG jumper wire?
I have the stuff I need to make it now, so I do. Example: a good Laminator, Drill Press, Pool chemicals... the carbide PCB drills and not really too much of an investment is involved.
Examples below: Yes, Toner silkscreen, locked in place by dullcote clear lacquer (2 light coats)
So to me... the process works... and results are good and a fun way for "me" to spend a Sunday afternoon.
Looks good. Thanks for the pics too. Do you use liquid tin on them or just as is? I think this will work out nice while I work out any design flaws with the board. Maybe then I can have a pro board made, but it's not like ill need ten brewery controls unless I wanted to start a business. Lets face it though. BCS-460 and Brewtroller seem to have that covered pretty well already.
Some of the people here have recommended using a laminator. Does the iron method suck that bad?