Breadboard problem - am I going mad?

Im ok with electronics, not a complete numpty :confused: but this issue is driving me nuts, pls help, what am i missing
Its like this, I got a standard solderless breadboard (and also some vero board). I thought it would be simple to branch out with my Uno projects and add some hware, like switches and pbs etc
I took for granted the design of the BB ie matrix of 0.1" - 2.54mm centres BUT the insertion length is 7mm with 0.6mm square pins (they will take up to 0.8mm wire)

so I tried a DIL chip and found the legs were 3.5mm and just seemed to touch the BB grips - hardly a reliable connection
I tried a cradle for a chip but these are designed for PCBs with 3mm legs - worse. Have I got to make a break out vero board with headers?
Then I saw others’ projects with dil chips sat on a BB

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG???

I tried to get some little push buttons 5.9x5.9mm outside - common type with slightly crimped legs

the spacing (pitch is 5.25 one way and 6.6mm across). You cant insert these into a BB without undue force - even then the insertion length is only 3.5mm - unreliable

A UK supplier on EB has twigged this and advertises his buttons as breadboard friendly (no personal interest here btw)

His pins are 8mm long - great at a price 5pce @ £2.85 (which gets you 100 naff ones from PRC)

I havent yet found BB compatible DIL sockets - only for pcbs (but they falsely advertise for BBs)
I expect Arduino sells compatible sockets at a price

So guys this may sound like a trivial matter but its giving me grief (as does so much of the PRC rubbish that falsely advertises - or implies BB compatability

Anyone else had this problem or is it my fat fingers >:(

You can buy extended DIL sockets but they are harder to find. As for those buttons yes they only just make it for contact was my findings too.

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Hi, I took for granted the design of the BB ie matrix of 0.1" - 2.54mm centres BUT the insertion length is 7mm with 0.6mm square pins (they will take up to 0.8mm wire)

so I tried a DIL chip and found the legs were 3.5mm and just seemed to touch the BB grips - hardly a reliable connection

Can you post a image of your BB with DIL legs too short? DIL ICs should fit straight in, no problem.

Tom... :)

ballscrewbob: You can buy extended DIL sockets but they are harder to find. As for those buttons yes they only just make it for contact was my findings too.

Your topic was Moved to it's current location / section as it is more suitable.

Could you also take a few moments to Learn How To Use The Forum.

Other general help and troubleshooting advice can be found here. It will help you get the best out of the forum in the future.

Thnx GM, I did my searches but didnt come up with this issue so I didnt know where to post it

Ive added another pic showing the anomaly of DIL vs BB

Its like ive uncovered a family disease :(

TomGeorge:
Can you post a image of your BB with DIL legs too short?
DIL ICs should fit straight in, no problem.

Tom… :slight_smile:

i posted a crossection I composed as above

If you follow the link from BSB above
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enCA923CA923&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=extended+dil+socket&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiooN_mpr7tAhUzGVkFHZZSD2gQjJkEegQIBRAB&biw=1568&bih=745#imgrc=gD_Q5b9Aj0ph0M

you will see the pix of DIL sockets, only one or two obviously BB friendly the rest would fail or be unreliable (std depth is 3.2mm)
Notice all the mfg are very coy about disclosing their depth of insertion (why?) You have to dig deep and often its not stated

Yet why has this not shown up before as a glaring issue. Contriving BB assy with such unreliable connections is surely a nightmare

Am I missing something? Stoopid boy Pike :confused:

Have always been a fan of BB for quick tests but they do suffer some drawbacks for extensive work.

They also have limitations in the current capacity so never run high current / voltage through them ! I soldered pins on a few switches to get round your problem and I am sure others have done similaer quick and dirty fixes too.

Most of my issues have been with the cheaper breadboards so I only have a couple of suppliers I trust. Also had some good sucess with cheap breadboard layout PCB's which are cheap enough to use. A cheap solder sucker does a great job for the odd bit of re-work too on those.

Indeed so this is whats called a “plated thru board” ? Ive seen some pre-soldered also.
Its like an advanced vero board and it would take std DIL sockets as per PCB

you then add on BB header pin strips to suit

So its a fair work around

one is a duplicate of a BB layout

Strange how this has not seemed to crop up given millions of BBers all up to dirty little fudges

I was just thrown by seeing DIL ICs plugged straight into BBs

on cheap BBs, the ones giving trouble were the cheapo whit ones from EB 6" x 2"
then I found an earlier translucent one 3"x2" where you could see the wafer grips inside and which way they were orientated
The DIL chip have pins 0.42mm wide by .25mm thick, so chips need to sit with the fat end across the wafer (not ideal as its designed for 0.6mm pins - 0.7mm (22swg) cu wire , so the gripping force is significantly reduced
Dil chips must be mounted across the gully (obvious I suppose)
Interesting is that the wafers in the power channels are right angle to the inner component area

The exlucent BB seemed to have a firmer grip in the test chip than the white BB but its at the very edge of gripping

The bottom line is that the BB was designed for 0.7mm cu wire stripped to give 5-7mm insertion

Its easy to see how a perfectly sound design can be copied and ruined for the sake of a few micro cents extra profit, so send it all out to poison the west - its like a kind of techno virus

Hi,

so I tried a [u]DIL chip[/u] and found the legs were 3.5mm and just seemed to touch the BB grips - hardly a reliable connectio

Did you mean socket? I have no problem with an IC directly plugged into the BB, not sure why you need a socket plugged onto another socket(BB)?

Tom... :)

Breadboards were designed, with that channel down the middle, exactly for building circuits with DIP chips. DIP chips have legs of a standard length (unless you bought reclaimed chips with shortened legs). If a DIP chip won't connect reliably with a BB then it must be a shoddy quality BB. Those standard pushbuttons, on the other hand, don't always work too well with my breadboards either, even the best quality ones.

A good make of breadboard is K&H. I like the AD100/101/102 series, which are small but clip together firmly, horizontally or vertically, to make larger boards of whatever shape suits. These boards have 6 rows of holes on each side where most other makes have only 5. You can get bus-bars AD-4D which you can clip where you need them too.

TomGeorge: Hi, Did you mean socket? I have no problem with an IC directly plugged into the BB, not sure why you need a socket plugged onto another socket(BB)?

Tom... :) indeed too LBGT for me. I am looking at the 2 types "turned" and "flat blade" to see how they stack up with a BB

Hi,

I am looking at the 2 types "turned" and "flat blade" to see how they stack up with a BB

Why, BB is for prototyping, using an IC socket in a BB, why??? As you have found an IC socket really built for insertion in a BB. They IC sockets are designed for PCB an other solder boards, so you can swap out an IC without putting the PCB under too much stress from a soldering iron.

Is there a reason to use a socket and not just plug the IC into the BB.

In both applications you are [u]plugging[/u] the IC in, when you add an IC socket in yours, you are providing one more connection to be a problem as you use the BB.

Tom.... :) I'm off to bed, its 1:15am here. :)

For starters, despite repeated requests for a photo of your breadboarded circuit, we still don’t have one.
(that was a different post)
For good solid connections to a breadboard, 20 guage solid wire soldered to the wires at the end that plugs into the breadboard will ensure the wires don’t come out of the breadboard. (blue wires)
The breadboards are A.C.E 236 metal base units.

Following the leads from above , BBs for millions

A C E (3M) early solid quality £35

K n H RH21 £9.41 - looks like the business (how would you find that on Ebay when swamped with hundreds of cheapo PRC listings - you would need to consult Arduino forum of course

then the ubiquitous PRC offering £1.75 or less (UK source - allegedly)

Here’s the deal

these all rely on a sprung wafer to grip the wire, so the quality of getting a proper spring grip is at stake. You can see that cheapo designs may only accept a wire jumper (0.6mm) maybe a few times before getting weak and losing grip

The original spec called for 22swg (0.7mm) cu wire (stripped to provide 5-8mm bare wire) and discrete components with tail leads (resistors capacitors xistors etc were pushed into holes with gay abandon

Along came DIL ICs which were intended for 1.6mm PCBs and had short spade leads 0.45mmwide x 0.25mm thick
x 0.35mm deep. These could also use purpose made cradles sockets also made for PCBs

Then along came a nerd who poked his ICs into the BBs of the time (early ones didnt have a an IC gully) and maybe early ICs had longer tails to 5mm which would work

Todays ICs are pared down (by bean counters) to just .32mm insertion and are just on the limit of being connectable

Which is the whole point of my OP

When you look at the magnificent birds nest for a lighting console above you can see that dodgy BB use would make for a nightmare

I am coming round to the conclusion that a hybrid approach using a “plated thru” proto board cw IC sockets and headers to suit the BB (like an Arduino shield) is the way to go

knh.jpg

@robint, can we ask you to start doing something a little differently?

When you use "Quote" to respond to a post, don't put your response inside the quote tags. Only what they say should be inside the quote tags. What you say should be outside the quote tags.

K n H RH21

Can't honestly say anything about those. The brand is good, but I don't have any. The ones I can recommend first hand are the AD series, the ones with 6 holes rather than 5.

PaulRB: @robint, can we ask you to start doing something a little differently?

When you use "Quote" to respond to a post, don't put your response inside the quote tags. Only what they say should be inside the quote tags. What you say should be outside the quote tags.

OK got it thnx - not doing it right :o

PaulRB: Can't honestly say anything about those. The brand is good, but I don't have any. The ones I can recommend first hand are the AD series, the ones with 6 holes rather than 5.

It was just what popped up on Ebay, there were more expensive one ca £35 Why do you like 6 holes rather than 5?

Hi,

Todays ICs are pared down (by bean counters) to just .32mm insertion and are just on the limit of being connectable

What spec are they? What is the spec number? Can you post an image of one of these short DILs?

Every component that I purchase that is DIL is the standard DIL, I have never been offered anything different apart from an SMD package.

The only reason I can see why short legged DILs are made would be for mass production purposes where the waste material could be minimised and not for prototyping with BBs.

Tom.... :)

Herewith a std DIL package drg
blade length L= 3.3mm + shoulder G=0.5mm total insertion 3.8mm
just barely catches the grip

Ive got a 741 IC sat on my desk just like that

"When you look at the magnificent birds nest for a lighting console above you can see that dodgy BB use would make for a nightmare"

That's not a dodgy breadboard and while the birds nest was unavoidable given the timeframe and the number of wires , if you look close enough you can see the little white paper labels on each wire and as I clearly stated , the blu wires are SOLID AWG 20 and they don't come loose . And FYI, the controller worked perfectly on the first test. Appearances can be be deceiving , but if you truly understand the concept of 'attention to detail', anything is possible. The ACE breadboards were the best money could buy in 1982, and that was my 3rd year in electronics and I got paid handsomely to design, build and operate that controller. It's amazing what you can accomplish with "The 555 Timer Cookbook' , a bunch of leds and pots and lots and lots of time... It worked just fine thank you very much.

And yes you should NOT be using SOCKETS in a breadboard !