Is Eagle the best?

Other Hardware General Electronics
1

Hello,

I hear that you are not supposed to use Fritzing diagrams to draw up your circuits as they are difficult to read and easy to misinterpret. I have been learning Eagle in order to properly ask questions and problem solve on my circuits, however I get the feeling that Eagle is just for drawing up PCB boards, not drawing a schematic of an Arduino circuit, is there a different software I should be using?

I am currently working on an Arduino project with many different components (e.g. contains Arduino Nano, a water pump, light strip, and fan.) is Eagle the wrong software for this or should I press on learning it?

Thank you,
Jordan

2

Eagle (Auto Desk) is will work for schematics which are really appreciated here. Using Eagle Schematic is worth a look. While I have it installed I haven't used it much but it can do schematics. There are plenty of free software programs out there for creating schematics. LtSpice comes to mind. Just try and find one you get comfortable with and run with it. Libraries become a big deal and I like software that allows adding parts and designing parts.

Ron

3

I prefer KiCad, it is a complete design package for PCB including schematic capture etc. It comes free and is full featured. Eagle (Auto Desk) Eagle has one restriction that I now about and that is board size, that is why I went to KiCad. The best advice I can give is try at least 6 of them and pick the one you like the best that will do what you want.

4

gilshultz:
I prefer KiCad, it is a complete design package for PCB including schematic capture etc. It comes free and is full featured. Eagle (Auto Desk) Eagle has one restriction that I now about and that is board size, that is why I went to KiCad. The best advice I can give is try at least 6 of them and pick the one you like the best that will do what you want.

Eagle has no size restriction in the schematic, only the board layout.
I tried KiCad and gave up. The learning curve was just too much.

5

Eagle has the advantage of tieing schematic symbols to board footprints. If the others do that, the posts here using them never seem to demonstrate that.
Create the schematic, connect everything up, then Switch to Board and it creates all the footprints on a generic board size for you to start your layout.
Change something in the schematic, it changes on the board. Change something about a component on the board, and the schematic is changed (part name, part value, part size). Add a new part to the board - no, it forces you to update the schematic first. Good tool!

As an example, here are the footprints on a design I inherited to clean up for layout. I can see several thru hole parts that need to be changed still into smaller SMD parts, and perhaps select a smaller package for the largish 8-pin component.

prelayout.JPG
prelayout.JPG966×673 58.8 KB

prelayout.JPG
prelayout.JPG966×673 58.8 KB

6

I personally like Kicad.

My reasons for liking Kicad are;

  1. I am a circuit designer not a PCB designer. So when I'm creating a circuit I may need a diode in a certain location. But at that time I don't care what the diode size or type is, I only know I need a diode. Kicad will let you do this, Eagle will not (or at least I couldn't do it).

  2. Kicad is free, maintained by an organization that doesn't charge for software.
    Eagle is now owned by Autodesk a company that normally charges a premium for software. Eagle could eliminate the current (limited) free version.

Now if you want to draw schematics and never plan on making your own PCBs than you should look at TinyCAD. Its free, relatively small and I found it very intuitive. But if you later wish to make your own PCB you will have to manually re-enter your design in one of the above or one of the site specific programs.

7

I have tried to use Kicad but found the learning curve to steep. I have also used the free version of Eagle but when Autodesk got hold of it I switched to EasyEDA and have been very happy with it.

8

jordanthielman:
Hello,

I hear that you are not supposed to use Fritzing diagrams to draw up your circuits as they are difficult to read and easy to misinterpret. I have been learning Eagle in order to properly ask questions and problem solve on my circuits, however I get the feeling that Eagle is just for drawing up PCB boards, not drawing a schematic of an Arduino circuit, is there a different software I should be using?

Its absolutely for drawing up schematics. Normally you do both at once in tandem, but you don't have to
have a PCB layout associated with a schematic.

There are other tools out there specifically for drawing schematics, but once you start designing PCBs
you'll end up using the one tool for both - why not do this from the get-go?

The other kind of schematic tool I often use is in the simulator LTSpice - because I want to simulate.

Often for a small circuit a photo of a hand-drawn circuit is simplest though, much quicker...

9

OP- don't let a lack of a professional looking schematic stop you from asking a question about a circuit. A hand-drawn schematic is fine- and much preferred over Fritzing pictures.

10

“ Is Eagle the best?”

‘Best’ is sooo subjective.

No, it’s not not the best IMO.

WinQcad is the best but it is no longer available. :sob:

“is Eagle the wrong software for this or should I press on learning it?”

I you have it then use it, 1000s of people use it and very much like it’s capabilities.

If you need a free version of software to draw schematics and make PCBs, try Kicad or EasyEDA.

11

ExpressSCH is also free and good for schematics, I post them here regularly, as do others.

Here's a simple one I did a few minutes ago to demonstrate using 74AHCT logic as a buffer between Raspberry Pi and 74HC logic. AHCT will accept as low as 2V for a valid high, so something powered from 3.3V that may not quite reach 3V as the minimum low of a high could use AHCT as a buffer to ensure god levels are reached.

I only layed out one board in it back in 2010, and have used Eagle since. Most Arduino designs are available as Eagle files; Sparkfun and Adafruit as well, so you can export Libraries from another design and use those parts in your own designs.

74AHCT541 3V to 5V buffer.JPG
74AHCT541 3V to 5V buffer.JPG1108×675 47.7 KB

74AHCT541 3V to 5V buffer.JPG
74AHCT541 3V to 5V buffer.JPG1108×675 47.7 KB

12

Fritzing does have a schematic view. It's limited and doesn't follow schematic conventions particularly well which is increasingly problematic as the circuit becomes more complex, but one could do worse than posting such a drawing.

What really annoys forum contributors is when someone posts a Fritzing breadboard view. While these can be a useful guide to assembling the physical pieces of the circuit, they are a poor means for conveying how the circuit works.

13

jordanthielman:
I hear that you are not supposed to use Fritzing diagrams to draw up your circuits as they are difficult to read and easy to misinterpret. I have been learning Eagle in order to properly ask questions and problem solve on my circuits, however I get the feeling that Eagle is just for drawing up PCB boards, not drawing a schematic of an Arduino circuit

The OP has a misconception or misunderstanding here that no one has picked up on or attempted to clear up.

TLDR: Schematics are diagrams but not all diagrams are schematics.

Fritzing may be unique among similar software packages because it has 3 modes or 3 views of the same circuit. They are called "breadboard view", "schematic view" and "pcb view" or something like that. They could all be described as diagrams, but only the schematic view can be described as a schematic.

Breadboard view is the one that Fritzing is famous, or infamous, for. Forum members here hate them so much they refer to them as "Fritzies". They are brightly coloured and attractive to younger forum members, but as the OP has noticed, difficult to understand and easy to misinterpret.

Fritzing, used in schematic mode, can produce quite good schematic diagrams. Often, newbies fail to produce a good schematic using it because they don't understand how to produce a good schematic even with pencil and paper. Also they don't download suitable component symbols for the components they want to use, which is a neccessary step when using any schematic drawing package.

Eagle has no equivalent to "breadboard view". It is aimed at a more mature, experienced user base. So it can't produce those breadboard layout diagrams but it absolutely can produce good schematic diagrams.

So how is a schematic different to a breadboard or pcb layout diagram? In a breadboard or pcb layout, the relative size, position and orientation of each component is important. In a schematic, those things are not important, and the components can be made whatever size, position and orientation makes the whole diagram simpler and easier to read. The only thing of importance in a schematic is the connections, and making them easy to read and understand.

The classic example of this difference is the London Tube map. It's not actually a map, it's a schematic. The exact locations and distances between stations are not accurately represented. Only the connections between the stations is important. That's what made it easy for travellers to use compared to the true "maps" that came before it.

14

MrMark:
Fritzing does have a schematic view.

Incorrect, please see my post above.

15

Wow a lot of information, could be overwhelming. I'll try to put it into perspective (even if it my perspective) :slight_smile:

I'm guessing you know the difference between a schematic and a breadboard diagram.

Decide (or at least have a feeling) if you plan to stay building electronic circuits or its a passing hobby/school project.

If you think you will be staying with electronics then give Kicad a try. I suggest Kicad instead of eagle as there is some concern on where eagle is heading since Autocad purchased it. If you find Kicad just doesn't fit how you think then give eagle a try.

If you want to draw some decent looking schematics then any of the above suggestions may suit you.

  • TinyCAD free, no strings attached, cannot be used to make a PCB.

  • There is a group of PCB mfg who make a schematic / board layout application that is often found to be easy to use. (expressSCH etc). These are fine BUT if you decide to go and make your own PCB you will limited to their services which are often not the cheapest.

I know nothing of Fritzing except the board diagram may be useful to a beginner but useless to communicate the circuit function.

16

This is the baby duck syndrome.
"In human psychology, Baby Duck Syndrome is called the effect when a person, studying a certain area, considers the first object encountered from this area to be the best, and the subsequent ones to be inferior."

I encountered this when I did a lot of video editing, and invariably would be asked for "the best" editing program. My first editor was Vegas by Sonic Foundry, then purchased by Sony Creative Software, and a few years ago sold to Magix. I became an expert with Sony Vegas and anything else is inferior.

The same applies to IDE programs, text editors and schematic capture programs.

"Best" is what works for you. Try them all.

17

Quoted from above...
"There is a group of PCB mfg who make a schematic / board layout application that is often found to be easy to use. (expressSCH etc). These are fine BUT if you decide to go and make your own PCB you will limited to their services which are often not the cheapest."

Not correct! EasyEDA is produced by JLPCB. It does excellent schematics, PCB layouts and 2D or 3D views of the built board. It is NOT tied to JLPCB and allows you to export the Gerber file to your chosen manufacturer or even save the PCB as a 1:1 image so that you can make your own board. I use that to mock up a board to check for physical fit etc. If you wish to pass it to JLPCB, that is a simple and inexpensive option.

I tried Eagle, Kicad and many others but found them all unintuitive. JLPCB seems to suit my needs the best. It isn't perfect but it's free and does the job it was designed for. I especially like the 3D view it offers.

18

SteveMann:
This is the baby duck syndrome.
"In human psychology, Baby Duck Syndrome is called the effect when a person, studying a certain area, considers the first object encountered from this area to be the best, and the subsequent ones to be inferior."

I encountered this when I did a lot of video editing, and invariably would be asked for "the best" editing program. My first editor was Vegas by Sonic Foundry, then purchased by Sony Creative Software, and a few years ago sold to Magix. I became an expert with Sony Vegas and anything else is inferior.

The same applies to IDE programs, text editors and schematic capture programs.

"Best" is what works for you. Try them all.

Thank you, I see baby duck syndrome all the time, especially in a few gun forums I am active in. What is the best 1911 .45 ACP and you get a plethora of responses where everyone figures what they own is of course the best. I also saw it quite a bit in new engineering hires. The last chip they learned in school is the only chip and all other chips suck.
Thanks for sharing that. While I have seen it quite a bit I never knew it had a name. :slight_smile:
Ron

19

PaulRB:
The classic example of this difference is the London Tube map. It's not actually a map, it's a schematic. The exact locations and distances between stations are not accurately represented. Only the connections between the stations is important. That's what made it easy for travellers to use compared to the true "maps" that came before it.

Just to be clear, if I want guidance on electrical wiring I should be making schematics?
Using Eagle would you still make abstract representations of say a computer fan just to show how it is wired in the project?
Thanks,
Jordan

20

If it's part of your overall circuit design, it should be shown somehow.

If you are just documenting the board, then it could be a note next to a connector on the schematic.